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Double Cross has given us an excuse to hear from people that we otherwise would feel kinda stalkerish just writing and quizzing for our own amusement. Getting in touch with Billy Rubin is cool as hell as it is. But Billy has gone beyond that, providing us with great info, great stories, and great contacts. The most recent contact has been with Unity/UC drummer Pat Longrie, who he has interviewed for us. Talk about a hook up!

I didn't know what to expect in Pat Longrie's answers, but I was floored, and I think you might be, too. I'm gonna say that this is shaping up to be one of my favorite interviews ever, and places Longrie squarly as one of the coolest guys to ever exist in the HC scene. I know hardcore to many has been just about music. It's pretty incredible to see that years and years later, to Pat Longrie it goes so far beyond that. PMA man...
-Gordo DCXX

I was 15 years old when I actually started to go to shows, but I began listening to the music about a year earlier. I remember my Uncle Bart laughing with my Father at the dinner table about how he was in San Francisco visiting his sister when the Sex Pistols came to town. He regretted not buying one of their pink tour shirts and commented on how bizarre the whole “Punk” scene was to him.

Shows in 1981-82 were a spectacle of power and pain. The atmosphere was explosive. I remember just walking around and watching people between sets and marveling at the diversity. Long hairs, skin heads, athletes, bikers and grown adults with their young children…it was like being at a human carnival. Fist fights were common place and anticipated. When you’re a kid, being away from the control of your parents is an exhilarating experience. With gained independence come choices. I remember being at my first actual “Hollywood” concert in Feb. 1982 at the Palladium. The bill was TSOL, Adolescents, Wasted Youth, Social Distortion and Youth Brigade. The Stern brothers and their BYO (better youth organization) put on the show and it was on a Thursday night...needless to say I got back home at about 5:00am to my Father waiting by the front door, but it was worth it.

Five minutes after we arrived to the show there was a knife fight in the outer hall. After the security broke everything up it was as if it never happened…business as usual. The bizarre thing about it was that wasn’t even the most memorable part of the evening. I watched John Macias from Circle One…with his bleached yellowish Mohawk, leather jacket, plaid pants and humungous black boots climb up the 20 foot high P.A. columns on the side of the stage during I believe TSOL’s set, and do three complete flips into the crowd and land on a guy’s head feet first! I swear the kid was dead. I watched as two security guards dragged the kid out by his arms with his tongue hanging out of this mouth. From that moment I was hooked. Like I said earlier…a human carnival.

The Orange County Hardcore Scene was a bit different from the L.A. scene in the fact that the participants were generally younger. That did not mean it was any less violent. The skin heads were always causing problems. The music was secondary to the inevitability of fighting. Generally it was at the expense of someone with longer hair or the poor unfortunate that happened to bump into or land on a skin near the front of the stage.

As the Straight Edge Movement began to gain momentum, however, there was an abrupt switch in the overall feelings at the shows. It was a kind of uplifting ground swell of camaraderie. The crowds were larger but they were more positive in nature. The pits were vicious but I can remember helping people up who had fallen and in turn being helped up. Looking back, it was much more fun to be a part of something rather than many parts of a whole. In other words, the movement had meaning.

There were many different interpretations, but they all lead to a positive, anti-obsession anthem that I still carry with me to this day. The basic tenets for me are pretty simple…I won’t be pressured into doing anything that I know is wrong simply because someone else isn’t strong enough to say no. I always knew who I was and I surrounded myself with like thinking individuals who had something to say and weren’t afraid to listen! I had friends that drank and smoked, they just knew better than to try and push it on me. That didn’t mean I shunned them...it was understood that I didn’t want any part of that aspect of their life. Simply put, there are no answers...only choices.

Q. Where did you draw influence from? What came first in your universe, punk rock or straight edge? Did you realize at the time that you were a part of a movement (punk or straight edge) or was it something else?

My Father had the most profound impact on my life. He was/is a charismatic, larger than life character that taught me to be strong and humble. His anthem was pretty simplistic: turn and face the storm. So it wasn’t a far stretch for me as I entered high school to be able to brush aside peer pressure and all its pitfalls. Being a parent now myself, I am thankful to my Father for instilling this gift in me as I pass it along to my kids. It isn’t how others view you that really matters, it’s how you view yourself. Everything else should then take care of itself.

Punk Rock and all its wonderful angst captivated me first but it was the positive promise of the straight edge moniker that strangled me and made the music truly my own. It instantly made sense to me. Minor Threat’s first single spoke directly to me. I didn’t drink or do drugs and frankly was never interested in being accepted for my beliefs before the D.C. push, so hearing like-thinking lyrics just reinforced my stance. Between Unity, Uniform Choice, and Wishingwell I was able to channel my natural adolescent confusions in a clear, focused, positive direction. I wrote lyrics that meant something to me. I wrote and received hundreds of letters from all types of people who were feeling the same sorts of feelings that I was.

I wrote to Maximum R&R stating that I wouldn’t jump on the band wagon of those ripping on their families and perpetuating the stereotypical “Punk” mentality of destruction and chaos. I loved my Mother and Father and I wanted people to know that I wasn’t afraid to print it. So that lead to the Unity songs “Love” and “You Are One”. The summer between my junior and senior year in high school my buddy Pete Ross and I drove to Reno, Nevada to hang with my friends Kevin and Steve from the legendary band 7 Seconds. Follow me because this story hits it right on the button. I had corresponded with Kevin for a bit and we had exchanged a couple letters. When we arrived basically unannounced to visit, they not only let us stay in their home (incidentally Ma Seconds also lived there because we were all still kids), but insisted we stay in their room while they slept on the couches. Great people. In fact, Pete and I roadied for them a couple of days later at their show in Salt Lake City, Utah with Pushead’s band Septic Death. Solid people with solid foundations.

Like so many other people, I embraced the responsibilities that came with being a part of a growing audience. For me it was a very humbling circumstance. Believing in something and watching it grow was overwhelming. The things I thought about and were troubled by as a kid (school, parental control issues, girls, drinking and drug use) were being talked about by thousands of others. I was a bit player, but it sure helped with my “personal” problems of teenage life to know others were experiencing the same kinds of pressures. I can’t emphasize enough how the punk forum was instrumental in my life choices…period. It was never about notoriety or money for me, ever. It was about fellowship. It may sound corny to some but I really don’t care. I carry the same conclusions I drew as a 16 year old, shaved headed straight edged punk with me today and no amount of revisionary rhetoric will ever take that from me.

Q. Were there certain bands or events (shows) that really stand out to you as pivotal experiences?

I was very fortunate to be able to meet and watch bands that had an impact on my life. 1982 tough to top Social Distortion, the Misfits and the Necros at “Bob’s Place” in downtown Compton…the hood of hoods! No stage, no problem. I was 5 feet away from Jerry Only in all his gothic glory when he got so pissed off at a kid that kept bumping into his bass while he was playing (remember, no stage or security) that he grabbed his skull decorated bass guitar in mid-song and two hand smashed it over the kids head! Blood everywhere, and as I was walking out after the show, basking in the glory of having seen such great bands in such a small, bizarre setting I noticed that all along the street EVERY single car had their window smashed and their stereo stolen, including mine.

The Dead Kennedys, Minor Threat, MDC and the Zero Boys played a show at “Old Town” in Westminster, California in 1983…the most powerful, electric, eclectic bill I ever saw. Old Town was where the Oktoberfest festival occurred each year so it was, to say the least, an odd partnership to begin with. The Zero Boys from Indiana were smoking. I had never heard of them before but they ripped. MDC was fantastic. Minor Threat was it. It was the first time that I saw them live and they were untouchable. Clean, smooth, raw and aware. Four pretty good words to describe something that was pretty much indescribable. Tough to follow that but Jello Biafra and the DK’s were captivating. Alexander Haig this and Ronald Reagan that…Jerry Brown, Vietnam, the Moral Majority…and that was in Jello’s opening dialogue! It was the show of shows for me. I have so many more memories like these. Like I said earlier, I consider myself very fortunate, indeed.

Q. Why do you think Mater Dei high school spawned so many punk rockers? I count you, Dubar, Dan O’ Mahoney and quite a few others.

Timing. 1980-84 was a fun time to be involved with Hardcore. It was brand new and full of so much potential and Mater Dei was a strictly regimented Catholic environment. When you put those two things together and mix in hard headed individuals you create an electric atmosphere. Dubar once shaved a cross in the back of his head and tried to convince the staff that he was simply exercising his right to celebrate religion! I walked around with a Mohawk for a week that I slicked down to one side. I looked like a moron and I knew it but so what. It took them a whole week to find out and they sent me across the street to the barber shop and they shaved my head. For whatever reason that high school had a bunch of teenagers that were willing to say, “big deal...you don’t like our music or our straight edge stance…..FU.”

Q. Was being in a band your first type of participation in the scene (beyond attending shows)? Was Unity your first band? How did you end up in Unity and what was the line up?

Pat Dubar and I wanted to form a band. He knew a guitar player and a bass player that lived in his neighborhood so all we had left to decide was who was going to be the singer and who was going to play drums. Basically we flipped a coin and thankfully he went and bought a P.A. and I bought a drum kit.

We played our first show in a warehouse with a bunch of other bands…I didn’t know how to play a lick and in fact I didn’t even have a foot pedal…we were called “Labeled Dead.” From there Pat got the opportunity to join Uniform Choice and I went off with Joe Foster (guitar, Ignite), Joe Navarette (bass) and Rob Lynch (vocals) to form Unity. That was my first real band. We played with some real cool bands (Youth Brigade, Marginal Man from D.C., M.I.A. etc.) on some fantastic bills.

Unity was special to me because it was my own. Not in the sense that the others didn’t contribute, because they did for sure, but in the fact that it was my first real contribution to the scene. Getting gigs, making stickers, shirts and flyers, writing lyrics etc. was me making a difference. I don’t care how many shows I played with UC or Unity, I always respected the bands on the bill because I know first hand how difficult and terrifying it can be to get up in front of an audience and perform. It takes a tremendous amount of work and some large balls and I never forgot that lesson while playing in Unity. For me, respect and humility are the essential parts of being in a band. Again, Unity was the very first part of Hardcore that I could call my own and in many ways still, it was the sweetest.

By the time the Unity 7” was recorded were you going to college? Tell me a little bit about the Unity 7”…It was very rare to hear a poem recited on a record at that time. Where did it come from? Was there ever a temptation to merge UC and Unity? How/When did Unity break up?

Unity was a raw, in your face band. There is something to be said for the energy that focused, motivated and enthusiastic young men can generate. Rob Lynch was the singer and he and his brother Pete were mainstays in the Southern California Hardcore Scene. They were at every show large or small supporting the bands and promoting Unity. One of my only regrets is that Rob wasn’t able to sing on the “You Are One” single. He deserved it but it just didn’t work out. I reconnected with Rob a couple of years back via the internet and he is healthy, happy and living in Arizona.

By the time I had entered college at UCLA in 1985, Unity was no longer viable. Uniform Choice was playing shows and had recorded tracks for their first album. Pat Dubar and I formed Wishingwell Records and decided to put it out ourselves. At that time the list of possible record labels was pretty much non-existent. We were nervous but confident that we could make it work for not only UC, but for other bands throughout the United States that faced similar road blocks.

But back to UC, I got a call from Dubar on a Friday night in my dorm room and he was frantic. They had just kicked out their drummer and needed me to play a gig that night in Riverside, CA with them. I didn’t know the songs very well so I listened to their demo tape on the way to show in my car. They picked up my kit from my parents house and that was it. Vic, Dave and I went over some song arrangements in the car before we were to go on…that is how I came to be a part of Uniform Choice.

We wrote a couple more tunes for the album (“Once I Cry and “Screaming For Change”) and went about getting ready for the release. They allowed me to write the lyrics for the new songs too, which I thought was cool. Pat and I thought it would be a good idea to put out something else before the UC album and we agreed that a Unity 7” would be the perfect fit.

We practiced with Joe Foster and John Lowery (his name was butchered on the jacket sleeve as John Low but he didn’t care) and went into Casbah Studios and recorded the whole thing live. This was pretty much my project and I was thankful to Pat for letting me handle it. I had written the lyrics and performed these songs live so it was particularly special to me. I took the cover picture of Pat at a park near his house and the great Gavin Oglesby was kind enough to draw the back cover (my Mother used her calligraphy pen to write the back song titles).

We liked the feel so much that we played with Unity and UC on the same bill a few times and had a real blast. Oh yeah…I wanted to end the last song with something different and I had heard this poem and thought it would be a fitting conclusion to the project. I was very nervous reciting it but years later I think the rawness personified that band and its meaning to me. We tried it again with one of my poems on the Uniform Choice album and I got a lot of flack, perhaps rightfully so. Nevertheless, if you aren’t willing to put yourself in a position to fail, you can’t hope to grow.

Do you remember any of the details of how/where you got the Unity EP pressed or where you got the sleeves printed? Do you remember how many were pressed? Do you remember where you first met Gavin?

Deciding to form our own record company was the easy part…actually finding the way and means to manufacture, produce, distribute and market the product was quite another task to say the least. We came across a man by the name of Tab Rex in Hollywood. He was a flamboyant record producer that knew absolutely nothing about punk rock. Dubar and I convinced him that we had some artists (UC and Unity) that could sell some units and open him up to a new audience of young people. He turned out to be a crook but we never let him manipulate our artistic vision…naive as it was.

I learned how to design sleeves, lay out pictures, typeset lyrics, pick record label colors, select colored vinyl etc. I never cared about how much money was made or lost, I only cared about the quality of the product. I remember holding the first copies of the final product in my hands and thinking, “This is ours…this is who we are and what we believe and no one can take that from us, ever.”

I don’t recall how many we printed initially…maybe 1000 or so, but an interesting sidebar to the trial by fire relationship with Tab Rex was the fact that he claimed to have the rights to a couple of songs by an up and coming Hip Hop outfit from South Central Los Angeles and he had a vision of releasing a 7” single with two Uniform Choice songs on one side and two tracks from this “Gangsta” rap group on the other. It never came to be but the group was NWA. Now that would have been an interesting combination.

What exactly was your involvement and role with Wishingwell? How do you remember things getting off the ground? What were the biggest difficulties with the label, your fondest memories, and biggest accomplishments looking back?

Pat Dubar and I were equal partners in Wishingwell records. We wanted to establish a label that placed the artist first. At that time the list of viable and perhaps more importantly, willing companies, that signed hardcore bands was non-existent. We were energized and motivated by the examples initiated by Dischord and Touch and Go and wanted to forge our own path.

With Unity and Uniform Choice respectively we felt we had two strong opening offerings and basically went about the task of learning how to build a company. It was both frustrating and exhilarating at the same time because we didn’t have any sort of blueprint.

My motivation in the beginning was pretty simple: never put art and profit in the same sentence. Even as a kid I never had any illusions of being a big time record executive or rock star. Punk music and the people that made up the entire scene meant everything to me. My iPod is filled with Dag Nasty, Rites Of Spring, Shades Apart, Government Issue, 7 Seconds, etc. because the excitement I experienced 25 years ago in listening to, watching and meeting these artists hasn’t subsided a bit. I’ve said this many times, but it rings true that it was a real family atmosphere in the beginning. Working with bands like Youth Of Today, Bl’ast!, Shades Apart, Apology (Mike Gitter’s project ) etc. to help promote their cause was fantastic, and a real eye opener to how demanding and time consuming a record label is, and then you have the inevitability of ego clashes. The more bands you work with, the more personalities you encounter. This coupled with trying to go to school and maintain a band was challenging, but I’m proud of what we did and tried to do in establishing an alternative for those without a voice to be heard.

When was it decided upon to put Unity "on hold"? When did the focus shift to playing in UC and why? What happened with Unity between this time and doing the Unity ‘Blood Days’ record?

Unity didn’t disband as much as it faded away. Because all the members were in high school and lived in different cities, it just wouldn’t work. The Blood Days record was Dubar’s idea so that he could put it on his own label “Powerhouse.” I didn’t mind because I thought it would be fun and probably my last collaboration with Dubar and I was pretty much correct on both accounts. Wishingwell was done and it was time to move on. Between the strain of company and band issues, it was just time to move on. (Editor’s Note: More on later era Unity to come).

Unity and UC were known for introspective, PMA-fueled lyrics and slogans that bands like Minor Threat and 7 Seconds first touched on a few years prior. What was the inspiration for these big loud statements that ultimately became battlecries for thousands of straight edge kids around the world in the following waves of the scene?

Punk rock and straight edge in particular fit me. It made perfect sense in a volatile time in my life. Minor Threat’s first single and 7 Seconds “Skins, Brains and Guts” spoke directly to me. I never understood why other kids, many of whom were my friends, found sanctuary in drinking, smoking and experimenting with drugs. I thought they were fools, so when I was introduced to like-thinking individuals it solidified by stance and legitimized my conviction. I had the complete support of my family and this was crucial to my comfort level. They encouraged me to follow whatever path I chose…of course my Father and uncles had a ball making fun of me when I went to gigs. They used to say, “you don’t need to go out and get bruises stage diving and slamming…we’ll pound on you right here in the living room!”

I wrote about my life. I structured lyrics that were relevant to me. Everyone has been a teenager and has lived through tough times filled with peer pressure, alienation and awkwardness…everyone. So I felt compelled to use hardcore as my forum. Again, I stress the importance of fellowship. I/we took a lot of shit for our anti-obsession convictions but as the movement grew, believe me, the negative element grew silent.

Even today I see chronic discontent from those who only wish to tear things down, past and present and who’s only view is revisionist. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I fully embrace those words, I just won’t swallow it no matter how hard you try and make it palatable. I live through my actions, not the words of those who hide behind their version of the past. I don’t care how hard you try, you will never make everyone happy. So I say fuck you if you don’t like what I was, what I did, or what I have become…because I live my life exactly how I mapped it out in my dingy little bedroom all those years ago.

UC was a touring machine. What shows stick out? Is it all a blur? Any good stories from the road? What was the band dynamic like for you guys? Was it always best to play in OC on your hometurf?

Uniform Choice loved to play live. Pat Dubar was a powerful front man, Dave was a solid bassist, Victor was as dynamic a hardcore guitarist as I have ever seen and I just loved to go berserk. I fully admit that I was no better than an average drummer but if you ever saw us live we prided ourselves on making sure the audience got its money worth and I loved to perform. As I mentioned earlier, for me it was always about being a part of something bigger than yourself.

We played on so many extraordinary bills that it does sometimes feel like a blur. I will tell you that watching Die Kruetzen at the 930 club in Washington D.C. was incredible. I remember watching the Goo Goo Dolls open up for us in New Jersey and thinking, "that singer has a real interesting voice." Minor Threat, SSD, SNFU, Dag Nasty, 7 Seconds...the list is endless and includes the greatest hardcore bands ever...period.

There were definite rolls that repeated within Uniform Choice. Outwardly, Pat and I drove the band. Together we handled the show booking, shirt designs and sales (Pat’s brother Courtney printed all our stuff ), lyrics, etc., but without the dynamic song writing of Vic and Dave it would all have been for naught. Victor Maynez was an amazing guitar player and remains a very good friend to this day. His down stroke approach to strumming was what guided our sound.

Coming home and playing in front of our peers was always special. The road is exciting but can be frustrating, especially when you place your trust in unreliable booking agents. The only thing that kept Uniform Choice alive during both our tours was the fact that we brought a ton of merchandise to sell. When you drive from Vancouver to Edmonton to Calgary and only make $350.00 Canadian you better either be independently wealthy or have something to sell. It was interesting to run into people who thought selling shirts and records was blasphemy. The fact is that if we didn’t we would never have been able to tour, so the argument fell on deaf ears as far as we were concerned.

A question of controversy: UC has taken a lot of heat over the years for the evolution in sound and image after Screaming For Change. How do you explain this transition, and UC's aesthetic, lyrical content, and sound growth circa 1987 and 1988? How had you personally changed from say, 1985, to 1988, and how did this impact UC?

First of all I want to make it perfectly clear that I only speak from my own personal perspective. If you are quick to bask in other's praises, yet unwilling to take criticism, justly warranted or not, and face things head on, then in my book, you are a coward. Double talk has no place in my life. I love “Screaming” and all it represented and I equally love “Staring” for the exact same reason. They were two halves of a whole. Like it or not transition is a part of everyone’s life. I had something to say but chose to express it differently, that’s it. We spoke of making a clone of Screaming for our second album - that would have been the safe move, but it wouldn’t have been genuine and quite frankly songs like “Cut Of A Different Cause” and “ I Am, You Are” were every bit as hard as anything on the Screaming album. Again, I must stress that the live performances were embraced by our audience because we always played the old with a sprinkle of the new.

I am eternally grateful for the kind words and warmth that people have showed toward Uniform Choice over the years. It is humbling to be connected in some small way to a movement that brought me so much joy. I get that some were disappointed in the sound change that took place. I even agree with some of the criticisms, but the way I look at it is that I would rather have given my blood, sweat and tears and been judged rather than sat idly by on the sidelines and safely point my self-righteous finger.

Unity then did Blood Days in 1988. How did this come about? Did the band ever play to support this record? Since Unity was essentially your band, how did you feel about this record then and what about now? How did the new songs on that record come about, and what was your tie with Joe Foster through the years while Unity was inactive?

I loved making music so when Dubar tossed around the idea of writing some new Unity material and re-mixing the vocals on the old stuff I was up for it. I liked playing with Johnny Mastro and I liked Joe D. Foster so it was exciting for me to get back together and be creative. For me it was about the process. I went to high school with Johnny and he was already a touring member of UC so that was a natural fit and Joe was always around the scene and had a catchy/hooky guitar melody approach. Legacy is something that always presents a double edged sword. I am proud of all the accomplishments my friends and I have mustered over the years and choose to view my life as ongoing. "You Are One" and “Blood Days” were very meaningful to me and that’s how I judge them.

Tell me about Uniform Choice’s tours? Please share any good tour stories! Didn’t T-shirts catch on fire in the back of the van? Why did Dave Mellow leave the band? What led to the eventual break up of UC?

The first UC tour was crazy. We bought a plain white extended van with no air conditioning and crammed five people, all our equipment and 200 dozen shirts in and just took off. I guess I could say we had a proper booking agent and a plan but then I’d be lying. We did have shows lined up and we tried to confirm them from the road but it was chaos.

On the way to our first gig of the tour in Detroit I was driving 104 mph through Iowa when we were pulled over by a state trooper. I pulled over and he yelled for me to “exit the vehicle." I could see all the guys peeking through the glass at me getting screamed at by this little cop with a huge wide brimmed hat on. He started out, "Boy what in theeeeeeeee hell do you think you’re doing?! It took me 20 miles to just catch up with you weaving in and out of traffic. Are you aware that you sent two cars crashing into the corn field?” I said "yes sir" and "no sir" and explained that we were in a hurry to get to a concert. He thought I was referring to the Iowa State Fair so he let us leave!

We opened up for the great 76% Uncertain at a show in Connecticut and as we began to play “Screaming For Change” we were pelted with coins from the audience. Funny as hell accept for a nickel that hit me in the teeth! Dubar rolled with it after the song and said, “next time could you please throw dollars? They don’t hurt as much."

Yes indeed the t-shirts did catch on fire in the back of the camper that Mr. Dubar let us use. We also shot fireworks out the side door at anything and everything that we passed by in Tennessee. After our final song in Montreal I couldn’t see the low beam coming off the stage and as I was waving goodbye I ran right into it with my forehead and it knocked me straight on my back almost unconscious. If that wasn’t reason enough to laugh, it was so dark that nobody realized I was down as we began our encore!

I just got off the phone with Vic Maynez so I could properly answer the question about Dave leaving and it was pretty much how I remembered. Dave basically joined T.S.O.L. when their bassist went to jail. He always gravitated toward more of a rock sound and with no hard feelings whatsoever he simply left.

Uniform Choice just seemed to run its course. Pat moved to New York with Mind Funk and pursued that genre of music and I had graduated from college and moved on. It is interesting when I read other people’s interpretations about UC, Unity or Wishingwell. Mmost are flattering and some are nasty. I’ll take the good with the bad any day. If you stand up for what you believe in you better be man enough to stand true.

Now that you are a civilian where has life led you? What do you do for a living? Have you missed the creative outlet that being in a band afforded you?

I live in Southern California with my wife and three children. I owned a commercial glass company for a million years and just recently to fill a void in my creative life I chucked it and started Dragline Clothing. Check out the site if you get a chance - www.draglineclothing.com.

Many thanks to Billy Rubin, Tim and Gordo for the opportunity.

This article is being reprinted in its entirety courtesy of Double Cross Webzine.
All Rights Reserved. 2009

We would like to thank Billy Rubin and Ken Salerno for the great pics!

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